Honi Soit: Could you please introduce yourself: name, degree, year of study, and faction?
Rand Khatib: My name is Rand Khatib. I’m studying a Bachelor of Arts. My year of study is a bit confusing because I switched my degree, but I think I’m entering my sixth year, and my faction is Grassroots. I’m a Palestinian student activist, community organiser, and Muslim.
HS: What’s the name of your campaign and what colour are you running on?
RK: So we have two campaigns, which are Grassroots and Free Palestine. The colour we’re running on is green for Grassroots and [we are] currently figuring out our colour for free Palestine.
HS: And how are campaign preparations going so far for your presidential candidacy?
RK: Campaign prep is going really well. We have secured support from other left-wing independents, bodies on campus. We can see that there’s two other presidential candidates running, which means it’s a contested election [and that is] always healthy for democracy. Campaign’s going really well, we’ve got our factions in a great position and [are] looking forward to the election.
HS: On the topic of factions, why did you join Grassroots and how long have you been a member?
RK: So I ran on a Grassroots ticket, two years ago and I wasn’t a member at that point, but I aligned very closely to Grassroots values, which sits under the theoretical, left-wing independent activist. In more detail, they’re feminists, anti-colonial, environmentalists, abolitionists, and these are kind of the values that I saw myself fitting into. The reason I joined Grassroots, after that election, after starting off the Grassroots for Decolonisation ticket is because I saw a faction that was genuinely committed to activism, and also very supportive of Palestine and decolonization more broadly. And then the last question was how long have you been a member? I guess I’ve been a member for like 18 months, I want to say. Yeah. If I started two years ago, it probably took me about six months to join.
HS: Are you a member of any political party?
RK: I am technically a member of the Greens, however, very inactive. I’ve never been to a meeting and also I think my membership has lapsed. But I also recognize that the Greens are essentially reformist in their political standpoint and there are limitations to reforms. I recognise that my politics exists outside of that landscape and that’s why I joined Grassroots. I think Grassroots challenges the status quo, has revolutionary ideals and that’s why I’d say my politics is not really limited or deeply influenced by the Greens.
HS: You’ve kind of already done so, but if you could describe your politics in one sentence, what would they be?
RK: I would say my politics are feminist, anti-colonial, abolitionist, and overall revolutionary.
HS: Can you briefly state why you think you are qualified to be the 2025 SRC president?
RK: I’m the best candidate for the 2025 SRC presidency for several reasons. I think the first being that the SRC has a really radical fighting history which challenges the status quo. The SRC is a place where movements have really had the opportunity to grow and bring students on board. That’s the kind of history and legacy that I want to be part of.
A second reason is that I am really qualified. Currently I’m the Women’s Officer, which means I convene the Women’s Collective. And last year I convened the Autonomous Collective Against Racism (ACAR). In doing so, I think I really show that I know how to lead. Although the SRC is not a collective in that way, I would say that I am well placed to lead the SRC as a president.
The third reason that I am the best candidate is because I have a vision for the SRC and I have a vision that goes beyond just running the ship and making sure it doesn’t crash and fall, but actually a vision that looks to its radical history and pushes forward, the issues which are very current in our time.
I think that this institution, the University of Sydney, is deeply complicit in a lot of unethical things, and I think that students have rarely been put first as a priority for this institution. I have the values and also the knowledge and skills to fight for those things. So fighting for an end to the corporate university to make sure that we have the best education that we should be getting, that our education is free, things like ending sexual violence on campus, which has been rampant. The institution has a duty of care, as well as fighting, for divestment and making sure that human rights violations are not being funded with our student fees. I think all of those things are incredibly important and the vision that we have for this SRC, the vision that I have for this SRC is to bring it in line with what students really demand.
HS: What in your opinion is the primary role of the SRC?
RK: I think that’s difficult to highlight the primary role because I see the SRC as having two main roles, the first being providing the services that students should have access to things like legal services and casework, and anything from visa applications to tenancy issues to dealing with academic misconduct. These are all things that require students to have the kind of support that they need and equally as important is the activist campaigns that the SRC is able to facilitate and that’s mostly done through the collectives and the Education Action Group. I think it’s really important that students have a fighting student union that doesn’t just accept the status quo but actually fights for things like free education, against course cuts, for climate justice and for Palestine. I think all of these things affect us as students from campaigns like Books Not Bombs to Scrap the Campus Access Policy. Some of these campaigns have a really long history, like Books Not Bombs or Abolish the Colleges and I think that student needs haven’t really changed all that much over the years. While those services that the SRC provides, like legal and casework, are really important, I think equally important are the activist campaigns.
HS: You mentioned some of the previous campaigns. What is one success of the SRC in the last couple years that you believe to be its most monumental?
RK: I think it’s really hard to pick one. I would say probably the food hub. I think the housing crisis, the cost-of-living crisis has been incredibly difficult on undergraduate students, to take a full-time study load and be working and living in one of the most expensive cities in the world. I think all of this amounts to housing and food insecurity. And I think that Food Hub was a service that was brought in to specifically address that need. I think that that was done under a Grassroots presidency in collaboration with the USU and has now been handed over to the USU, which is exactly where I think it belongs. I just want to point out that that was something that the SRC really fought for and demanded and that was under Grassroots presidency.
HS: This one’s a bit of a big question. so let me know if you need to repeat any section. If elected, you would be the sixth consecutive Grassroots president of the SRC. Many of your platform positions are similar to those held by previous Grassroots presidents. Firstly, do you think that previous Grassroots presidents have been successful in materialising these goals, and what will you do differently?
RK: So I think it’s important to note that we’ve had five Grassroots presidents in a row because five times in a row, the Grassroots president has been the best candidate year in and year out. People vote for the best candidate and that’s going to be true this year, just as much as it was last year. In terms of Grassroots presidencies and their policies, I think it’s actually a good thing that the policies remain more or less the same because student needs and the political landscape stays almost the same, right?
I think the most pressing issues are things like course cuts, the cost-of-living crisis. These are all things that have been one of the main issues in previous years as well. It’s a commitment, right? Like putting this in your policy year after year shows that there’s a commitment to really build that movement and build that struggle because it’s not going to be necessarily accomplished in a year. And I think that Grassroots presidents are successful. I also think that the political landscape this year did change slightly with the genocide in Palestine and the subsequent encampments calling for divestment. I think that that was really important to really highlight and spotlight. And that’s exactly what Harrison did, as Grassroots president this year. So yeah, I think that there is a commitment to all of those important struggles.
What would I do differently? I guess what I would do differently is I would work more closely in collaboration with the collectives. I think that the collectives are a source of knowledge, and lived experience can’t really be underestimated whether it’s a transphobe being invited on campus by the philosophy department and consulting with the Queer Action Collective, or whether that’s working with ACAR to continue the legacy of the Israeli Apartheid Week, which sheds a spotlight on Palestinian right to self-determination. I think all of these things are ultimately really important to actually consult with the relevant collectives. And that’s something that I would do slightly differently. I think that lived experience is something that needs to be amplified.
HS: Subset of this question, considering the previous Grassroots presidencies and what they bring to the table. In last year’s president interview, Harrison Brennan was asked if the academic board and the university senate should publicly take political stances. Given the establishment of the university’s investment policies review working group, do you think they should be making political statements?
RK: I think they should absolutely be making political statements. I mean, look at it historically, right? If you analyse the anti-apartheid struggle for South Africa, it was actually the people putting pressure on institutions and on governments to apply things like sanctions to divest from South Africa until there was a compliance with international law. And that’s exactly what happened. This is being demanded for Palestinian freedom and justice. But also there’s demand for that for the environment, like divestment from fossil fuels. There’s demand for serious change to the culture on campus surrounding sexual violence and gendered violence. I think it’s very clear that the people are really, really well spoken about this issue. Like the students know what they want and they’ve been demanding it for quite a while.
So I do think institutions actually have an obligation to their students and their community, right? I think it’s very silly that a man in a three-piece suit thinks that he’s kind of like the community of the university, but really it’s us. Like what would the university be without its staff and students? And I think that’s exactly what we show every time students go on strike in solidarity with the staff and the NTEU to demand their workers rights. We show that we run the university, not management. And so I think it’s really important that the obligations of an institution and the first university on this entire continent. I think there’s an obligation there to really stand for justice and reckon with its own colonial history. And, you know, commit to genuine justice and self-determination because they like to talk a lot about things like decolonisation and what it means to reckon with truth-telling, but very little does that actually translate into action.
HS: Since Grassroots is a non-binding faction, would discussions by the caucus affect your decisions as president?
RK: I think as president, recognising, of course, that I’m a representative of the undergraduate student body. That means that I represent undergraduate students, that means that I am informed by the wills and the meanings of undergraduate students. And that’s exactly how I plan to govern the SRC, if elected president. I would have conversations with students in the classroom, on campus, stalling. I’ll have consultation hours, which is exactly where I would be getting feedback from students, making sure that they are aware of the SRC, but also making sure that our policies, that what we want is really in line with what students need. Grassroots is a faction that is about putting students first. And I think that, nine times out of ten, that is exactly how our positions are reflected. So I don’t think there’ll be much of an issue with that.
HS: Engagement in student politics, as reflected by the recent election vote numbers, is arguably at an all time low. What will you do to build engagement in the SRC’s activist work?
RK: There’s two parts to this. There’s activating people who are already somewhat engaged or aware of the SRC but there’s also broadening the scope and actually bringing more people to be aware and involved in the SRC. I think one way of broadening our support or the kind of people involved in the SRC is through the collectives and supporting the collectives. I think there’s so many students on campus who would want to be involved in the campaigns, the activities, the events and the actions that all these different collectives are able to put on.
Something that I did as a Women’s Officer was we introduced, an event to bring people on board was Cheese and Tatreez which is about bringing women and gender diverse people, bringing them together, learning something like a Palestinian traditional craft and being able to have conversations while we’re doing that, you know, quite radical conversations and seeing them again the following week at our women’s collective meeting. And that’s exactly how you engage people. It’s through those kinds of programs and events and actions and also just like things like rallies on campus. People always love to know what’s going on. What is this flag that you’re flying? What does this banner say? So I think that’s a really important way of broadening. I also think stalling is really important. Last year when I was convening ACAR, we quite often did a homemade bake sale and we would set up a stall and now would be considered illegal under the Campus Access Policy. We would do bake sales like for Sudan and, whatever kind of was the pressing issue at the time. And so things like that, get people more involved in the collectives, which then gets them more involved in the SRC.
In terms of the other aspect of this question, which is those who are kind of already aware of the SRC, somewhat involved, it’s like how can we get them sort of more engaged and more active? I think increasing the stipends that were available to more office bearers was one way of really activating a lot of those people. I think, the Ethnocultural office bearer position was stipended mid my own term of that position. So I joined, I think in something like October the previous year and it was stipended in June. And so, I joined in December 2022 and then the following June, the stipend kind of started and I was able to commit more hours to the ACAR collective. I was able to do more with that which I think is really important to acknowledge that people of colour, queer people, people with disabilities, and of course First Nations people, these are all people who face different axes of oppression, sometimes intersecting, and this can be a barrier to their commitment to activists campaigns. So I think stipending those positions was a really amazing increase in engagement for those collectives and for the SRC. I hope to see potentially more stipended positions, but so far there’s really increased engagement and that was done under a Grassroots presidency.
HS: Can you briefly take us through your SRC, such as Councillor, Ethnocultural Officer and Women’s Officer, and what you learnt that would be valuable as president?
RK: Currently I’m the Women’s Officer. and the year before that I was both Ethnocultural Officer and I was a councillor. In my time in those positions, what I’ve really learned is the importance of having autonomous collectives, those safe spaces where you can have very nuanced conversations but also just the importance of building power.
When I was ACAR convener, something that we did quite a lot of was building power with the Blak Caucus, which is a First Nations activist collective off campus who run things like Invasion Day, Black Lives Still Matter, and political education forums building power as well with Tzedek Collective, which is an anti-Zionist Jewish collective, which has students and staff on it as well. And I think finding ways to build power with those different groups was really important. The Women’s Collective this year, we introduced the feminist anti-racist liberation library, which has been really good. It’s a collaboration between ACAR and the Women’s Collective that we’re able to meet fortnightly. And it’s a co-learning space that is non-autonomous, anybody can come. You don’t even have to be a student. We want to be centering that radical education that we often don’t get at university and really transforming what that education looks like. So yeah, we did stuff from film screenings to reading groups to writing workshops. It’s kind of like multimodal and we share facilitation around because we recognise that not one person is a teacher and everybody else is a student, but that learning can exist in very different ways.
HS: You also have extensive experience in organisations outside of the university, such as BDS Youth, Palestine Justice Movement, and Blak Caucus Allies. What can you bring to the table from your involvement in these specific roles?
RK: I actually got involved in activism off campus before I started on campus. And I think that’s actually been really foundational to my politics and to my organising, community organising skills. Palestine Justice Movement was a space where I learned how to work with union delegacy, union leadership, but also rank and file union members. BDS youth, we worked on more specific and targeted campaigns like looking at HP, looking at the apartheid-free zone campaign. All of these campaigns were coming from the BDS movement, a very global movement, and calls by Palestinian civil society. So I think it was really important that there was this kind of international call to take action. And part of what we learned is how to, how do we localise that? How do we really centralise that and make it contextually relevant? So a lot of the calls we would contextualise by working with local First Nations activist groups, making sure that what we’re doing is in line with that decolonial framework.
I think also just learning how to be a good ally. As a Palestinian, of course, I’m a refugee and someone who fled occupation and that kind of like colonial violence but coming here, I was reckoned with the fact that I’m actually part of a system that inflicts colonial violence on people here, and that is First Nations people. Learning to reckon with that was really important for me, and has been really foundational to my now politics and understanding. And so I think learning how to be an ally taught me also how to ensure that I’m not speaking over certain people, whose voices need to be amplified, that I know how to listen, because there are so many student experiences that I’m not necessarily a part of. Like, yes, I’m a woman of colour and so I understand what it’s like to be a woman, I understand what it’s like to be a person of colour, but I don’t know what it’s like to be disabled on campus, I don’t know what it’s like to be an international student, and these are really important experiences that I need to be able to listen to and really understand. And so I think, yeah, being kind of in that allyship position, has really taught me that skill.
HS: Our next section is broader policy points. With the newly announced international student caps, we saw the SRC, the University, NTEU and NUS all share the same opinion that it will not be beneficial for university and students. With rising costs of living prices, the opal card concession campaign, how will you address the rapidly growing concerns facing international students?
RK: I think the first and most important thing to know about the international student cap is this proposal has very long term effects of essentially increasing racism by scapegoating international students who, let’s be honest, are mostly not white. There’s a real threat here to increase racism, increase tension between domestic and international students. And I think that that is a real shame, by the Labor party and the Labor party government because the way that they’ve just accepted, the sort of anti-immigration sentiment and kind of tried to disguise it as, it’s for housing or it’s for reducing the influx of international students to education. I think that’s really important to actually highlight that this is going to feed racism in our society.
The student cap; I take the position that is shared by the NTEU, by the SRC, by the NUS, that this is a really detrimental thing to our education. I think removing a lot of the income for universities without offering a replacement for that, is a shameful move by the Labor party. I mean, first of all, let’s be very clear, education should be free, and it should be free indefinitely. And that’s something that, because the Labor and Liberal governments have not done in previous years, they are now stuck in a position of essentially having to have tertiary education institutions make really terrible cuts that then have a really negative impact on our education as students. I think that the important and relevant thing here is to really stand in solidarity with our staff, and recognize that, you know, this is going to institutions, laying off a lot of staff and, making I’m sure what will be made clear like more course cuts, this is going to further, really reduce the quality of our education. And I think that’s a real shame and the Labor party should not be doing this, whatsoever.
I plan to address this particular issue by, first of all, reaching out to the international student officers seeing if they’ve got a campaign already in mind and if not working with them to build that kind of campaign. I think our student union needs to be a fighting student union so fighting these terrible policies coming out with statements potentially even demonstrations against it. I also want to preemptively work with the Autonomous Collective Against Racism for what we will inevitably be experiencing as an increase in racism against international students. I think that these are really important things, really important first steps, towards addressing this.
HS: Given the recent implementation of the campus access policy. How will your proposed Scrap the CAP campaign unfold and evolve?
RK: So Scrap the CAP is a campaign that’s kind of already started by the Education Action Group. And I do think that that’s actually a really good place for it to sit. I mean the Education Officers, year in year out, are very experienced activists. They have quite a large budget for that collective and I think they are well placed to handle the Scrap the CAP campaign. I will ensure, my job if I’m elected president wouldn’t be to lead every campaign, but it would be to ensure that every single left-wing campaign has the proper funding, the proper resources, the rooms booked, to be able to pursue those campaigns. I think Scrap the CAP is vital. I can’t stress enough how important this campaign is because It is about essentially every single movement, right? Like it’s every struggle. Everyone is going to be affected. And yes, it came about because of the Palestine encampment but that doesn’t mean it’s going to be limited to Palestine, or divestment. I think that it’s very clear that this university plans to really repress and stifle the decades and decades of activist history that our student campus has had for so long.
I also think that the Campus Access Policy will also affect the NTEU strikes. I think that as workers, they have absolutely every right to essentially win their rights and get their demands. And I think that’s really important that as students, we actually bring the numbers to be able to stand in solidarity with them. Because we know that staff working conditions are our student learning conditions. So I think that it’s really important that we fight the CAP. And that’s definitely going to be one of my priorities, making sure that I’m attending Education Action Group meetings, making sure that the SRC is promoting Scrap the CAP as a goal. Key campaign, collaborating on social media, making sure that there’s enough content out there. These are all things the SRC president can do.
I think that it’s important that students bring the numbers to stand in solidarity, with the existing Scrap the CAP campaign. With the NTEU strikes because the Campus Access Policy I’m sure is going to affect their mobilisation for the strikes. So I think it’s really important that we are ahead of that, and making sure that there’s a culture where students are standing in solidarity with staff because we need to understand that their working conditions are our learning conditions. On top of that, I think there’s other things that the SRC president can do like amplifying the campaign, collaborating on Instagram, that kind of stuff, like making sure that there’s video content out there, explaining why the Campus Access Policy is repressive, and what could happen because of it.
HS: Many of your policy positions, such as ‘fix the rental crisis’ and ‘commit to drug reform’, involve state or national policy, as opposed to the university policy. What would you say to students who might think this focus is unrealistic or unfeasible? How will you mobilise SRC resources to pursue these goals?
RK: So statewide and federally, we have Labor governments in power. And I think that because we’re a student union, we can collaborate with workers unions, trade unions, staff unions, all of these associations and that kind of stuff to ensure that we are building power with them to put pressure on the Labor government because we know the Labor government is very deeply linked to a lot of these unions. I think that a lot of movements, like legalising cannabis, that is something that’s already happened in the ACT, something that is well and truly in the works in New South Wales. I think that we as students, and student union, should be committing our resources to these campaigns and normalising this culture of fighting for what it is that we want. And sometimes that is putting pressure on the government and sometimes that is straight up just demanding what we want and building a big social movement around that issue.
HS: How are you engaged with management? What is your approach? And do you think that that contradicts left wing values or can they be reconciled?
RK: I will engage with management in a predominantly oppositional framework. I think that we have to understand and see that management is so often responsible for so many of the issues that students are facing. I think things they have a duty of care for, for students and seeing an increase of a 100% of sexual violence on campus, is proof that management is not doing enough to stamp out sort of sexual violence, culture and rape culture and that includes places like the colleges. It’s clear that we have to have a very oppositional stance to management. Having said that, the president sits on several committees, and that is important. It is important for the undergraduate student voice to be represented by the president. It is important for them to hear an oppositional voice because so often these committees are stacked with people who agree with the Vice-Chancellor and that’s just not good enough. I think that they need to hear very realistically what it is that students care about. And it is things like fixing the rental crisis, and things like safe and affordable housing on campus, food insecurity, and yeah.
HS: Regarding the role of office bearers, how would you deal with anyone who’s not fulfilling their duties or should be doing more work?
RK: I think it’s hard to measure work or productivity, especially when so many of the issues that office bearers are actually fighting like social conditions or, yeah. I mean, how do you measure productivity, how much anti-racism work the Ethnocultural Office bearer has done? But there are things that are important like it’s important to come to council. It’s important to voice your opinion and represent the student body. It’s important to make sure that Honi Soit comes out once a week and all of those things so I guess ultimately I think it’s that balance of care and understanding and recognizing that not every outcome is going to be measurable but also providing support when necessary. What can I do to alleviate some of your workload? How can I assist you? Do you want me to book a room for you? What is it that I can do to assist? Because ultimately we’re a team and I think that even across factional lines, we should absolutely be working as a team to ensure things are done. Things like Radical Education Week and Israeli Apartheid Week, and making sure that magazines that students love like Growing Strong are out on time and able to be distributed at Welcome Week.
HS: Our next set of questions will deal with Palestine activism. How will you build upon the SRC’s involvement in Palestinian activism besides current campaigns, like Israeli Apartheid Week, and protests by groups like Students for Palestine and Students Against War?
RK: Something that I was very involved in making possible last year was making the Student Representative Council the first ever apartheid-free zone in Australia. That’s something that I’m really proud of. I worked really closely with the BDS movement, which is an international, a global, anti-apartheid and anti-genocide movement. And the boycotts, divestment and sanctions movement is an integral part of the Palestinian self-determination. It’s what Palestinian civil society unanimously agree on that. They might be divided on one-state, two-state, they might be divided around different theoretical things, but everyone unanimously agrees that BDS is so important and I think that our role in the international community, our role here in so-called Australia is actually to reckon with that and see what it is that we’re accountable for, what it is that we’re responsible for because ultimately the genocide in Palestine and the occupation of Palestinian territories, the apartheid, all of that actually is isn’t just a thing that affects Palestinians, it’s a thing that affects everyone worldwide because we actually have a duty to not be complicit and something that’s happening right now is that this university is complicit. This institution that we pay funds to attend, we are complicit.
So I think it’s really important that the SRC has a radical stance on this. Becoming an apartheid-free zone was really good for the SRC last year. We broke contracts with HP, which is on the official BDS list. We won’t be using HP printers anymore. We won’t be purchasing new HP products. And I think now that we’ve got that status as an apartheid-free zone, we can work with other student unions, maybe the National Union of Students, and do outreach and support them in becoming apartheid-free zones as well. Because that’s historically, that’s how the South Africa apartheid came to an end. It started exactly like this. It was institutions taking it upon themselves to essentially break away, both materially and politically, from the repressive system of governance.
HS: Palestinian activism on campus is often said to be factionalised, potentially foregrounding non-POC activists and Stupol-affiliated students. Given your involvement in these spaces, do you think this is a valid criticism? Is this something that needs to be addressed?
RK: I think perhaps that might have been true. But I think after the Gaza Solidarity encampment, this was able to really bring together almost every faction. Almost every faction that cares about Palestine had a presence at the encampment, not necessarily, the same amount but I think it is important that they were there. It brought in people that had no idea of Stupol. It brought in the Muslim Student Association which was almost half the camp. It brought on independent students, who had support for the encampment, but weren’t necessarily aware of the SRC or involved in Students for Palestine or Students Against War or whatever groups and bodies that exist. So I think it was actually a really great way of harnessing this coalition of people who care for human rights, people who wanted to end their complicity, the university’s complicity and didn’t want to see their funds, their fees paying for bombs being dropped against Palestinians. So I think it was a really great symbol of that kind of support for Palestine.
HS: There are many who might argue that an SRC in Sydney will not be able to make a difference in situations overseas. How would you respond to concerns that the SRC should not be focusing on quote unquote foreign issues and only focus on domestic and university related issues?
RK: My response to that kind of criticism is firstly that we live in a global society. Like, there’s no distinction anymore, between what is local and what is foreign. I think it’s very clear that the world is so intrinsically linked. I mean, from things like the economy to the way that social movements happen, as well as looking at social media. I think one very good example of that is, after George Floyd was killed, there was a massive Black Lives Matter social movement, and that was contextualised here in so-called Australia as looking at the way that First Nations people are hyper-incarcerated. And so, I just don’t think it’s really, I just don’t think you’re able to really separate these things anymore from being a global issue.
Many students at the University of Sydney have deep, deep intrinsic care for whether it be their home country, kind of like living in diaspora, or being an international student coming from a different country but also just like understanding that the way the world currently exists with, the system of domination of Western hegemony, it affects us all. It affects us all, everywhere in the world. And yeah, I guess I would really reject the premise of that question. And I think I would also answer and say that, actually, if we’re students that pay university fees to be at this university, why would we then be okay with it being complicit in essentially oppression somewhere else across the world. I mean, someone that is exactly our age, kind of has, you know, exact aspirations that we have. Maybe they want to be a student journalist. Maybe they want to be a philosopher, whatever it is. Why is it that our university is part of the system that continues to perpetuate, kind of the oppression that prevents them from either being able to pursue those aspirations or, destructs all universities in a particular place. I think that’s really important for us to acknowledge that places aren’t as distinct as we think they are, and that everything’s really connected.
HS: The Sydney University Muslim Student Association (SUMSA) encampment, concluded after they negotiated a deal with management. Would you be open to do the same specifically in relation to disclosure and divestment of ties to Israel?
RK: I think there’s limitations to signing a deal with management, to achieve what we really understand as justice and freedom and that the real kind of end to complicity can really only exist through a real fighting of the system and to be oppositional to management. But having said that, I think that it is really, really important that we try every single tool at our disposal to bring an end to the horrifying scenes that we’re seeing because we’re such privileged people here, living in safety, living in security in the West. Sure, it was deeply uncomfortable to sleep on the front lawns, and it was very difficult at times to continue, to have the hope that the university will divest.
But ultimately, we live so comfortably and so privileged, in comparison that it is not up to us to say, we’re not going to try this one tactic, because actually, I just don’t believe in working with management. Sure, I don’t believe that it’s going to get us exactly what we want, but I do think, if we’re able to, even if there’s like the slimmest chance of actually achieving, whether it’s economic and material or very symbolic, cutting of ties, I think that puts a lot of pressure on the Australian government, I think that puts a lot of pressure on Israel. To end its complicity for a university like the University of Sydney, which has the reputation that it does for that university to come out and say that they’ve divested and they’ve disclosed their investment portfolio with Israel, I think that puts a big fat question mark on the state of Israel. And that’s exactly what the BDS movement is about. So I don’t think it’s up to me as an individual to say, I won’t work with management, I won’t sit on the divestment working group or I won’t do that or I won’t sign a deal with management because that’s actually just not good enough.
I think that we have to sometimes put those things aside and look at the big picture. And the big picture is what am I going to say to a Palestinian in Gaza when they ask me what did you do to stop this war? What am I going to say? Sorry, I didn’t have a meeting with management because I don’t believe in that. I think it’s important that we try everything at our disposal to exhaust every option.
HS: To emphasise a certain aspect of the question, does exhausting every option mean would you be open to doing the same as SUMSA?
RK: I think SUMSA did what they thought was best given the circumstances, with a lower attendance at the encampment. And it’s very clear that they put Palestine first. I don’t know that I would have done the same thing in that position, but I also recognize that many students and student protesters left them alone.
HS: In future circumstances, specifically in relation to disclosure and divestment of ties to Israel, would you be open to negotiating and dealing with management?
RK: I think that there are too many factors at play. So I think it’s important to note that they’ve created a divestment working group, which is management-led, and we don’t know who management is going to put on that working group. It might be full of people that support Israel, and that is likely what’s going to happen because that’s the kind of thing this university management would do. I’m not ruling it out as, you know, there’s hope there, but I just think that that wouldn’t be enough for me personally to sign a deal. I think that disclosure is good, but more of a commitment to divestment is better. And I think that this isn’t just my opinion. This is a student general meeting that was really well attended. This is the NTEU’s position, the Sydney Uni branch, which passed in motion in support of BDS. I’m not just speaking as an individual here but I’m speaking as the overwhelming majority of staff and students that it’s good, but it’s not quite what I would have signed a deal for.
HS: Will you be following up on the university’s commitment to an Experience Palestine OLE?
RK: I think it’s very difficult to talk about Experience Palestine as this unit of study, essentially. I’m Palestinian, and part of being Palestinian means you have one of five different experiences at minimum, right? There’s Palestinians who live abroad, like Palestinians in diaspora, like myself. There’s Palestinians who live stateless in refugee camps across the world, particularly in the Middle East. There’s Palestinians who live in Gaza, who are living under horrific scenes of devastation. There’s Palestinians who live in the West Bank, and they face a very different reality to Palestinians who live in Jerusalem and there’s also Palestinians who live within so-called Israel. So like my family, for example, who live as so-called, equal citizens, but really they face systemic and legal discrimination.
I think that because of this, there is no ‘Experience Palestine’. You can’t experience Palestine because first of all, like, how are you going to experience what it’s like, to be in any of these very different experiences? I think it’s deeply problematic to experience Israel or Palestine right now. And the reason I say that is because one, it’s not necessarily a safe thing to do and to be sending students to any of the Palestinian territories and also within so-called Israel. Who’s going to be safe in Israel and Palestine? Well, it’s probably going to be non-Arab, non-Muslim students that are going to be safe because Israel has a deeply Islamophobic and anti-Palestinian and anti-Arab system of governance. It means that IDF soldiers are going to be potentially detaining Arab students. So, I think it’s really naive for us to think that we can just send students from Australia to Palestine to experience what it’s like.
I also have an issue with Experience Palestine because Palestinians in Palestine don’t really support people coming in this touristic way right now. I think that they are sick and tired of feeling like a museum. I think that there should be more calls for, I’m not saying this, but I’ve heard that there’s calls for a tourist boycott of Jerusalem, of Palestine, because you can’t actually get into Palestine, the Palestinian territories like the West Bank, like Gaza, or even past East Jerusalem. You can’t get to these places without entering and normalising Israel’s occupation of these places. So, for example, if you want to spend a week in Jerusalem, you have to enter through the Israeli border. You have to encounter Israeli soldiers. You have to essentially accept Israel’s so-called sovereignty over these places. I just don’t think that many Palestinians would say that’s okay, and we shouldn’t accept that. And so I know there’s a strong boycott movement coming out of BDS Malaysia, that is boycotting going to Jerusalem, boycotting visiting Al-Aqsa Mosque, which is the third holiest site in Islam because of this reason. Because they don’t want to accept Israel’s sovereignty over this land, and they say that I will visit when Palestine is free, which is the end of the occupation.
HS: With regards to your policy point on wanting the university to publicly reject the IHRA definition of anti-semitism, would you be willing to meet with management to discuss this demand or would you resort to other forms of pressure, especially as submissions are closed for the Commission of Inquiry into Anti-semitism at universities?
RK: Yes, I would be willing to meet with management about IHRA and I actually have. So when I convened ACAR, myself and Lia [Perkins] who was the President of the SRC at the time, were asked to give feedback on what was a draft anti-racism statement at the time, because I was convening the anti-racism collective and because she was the representative of undergraduate students. She and I went to meet with management on the IHRA definition. Actually, it was about their anti racism statement and we gave our feedback. Most of my feedback was, you haven’t mentioned the word colonisation, colonial, colony anywhere in your statement, to which they didn’t change any of the statement. I also provided feedback regarding the naming of the Wentworth building. I think that it’s pretty awful that the University of Sydney wants to name this building after a slave trader, while also pretending to kind of reconcile with its history and commit to truth-telling and all of these things. The University of Sydney also didn’t have a position on the voice to Parliament. Notably, Mark Scott abstained from voting when that was brought to the Senate. So I think there are things that are very obviously a clear indication that the University of Sydney is really unserious about anti-racism.
But during giving feedback for that anti-racism statement, Lia and I expressed that the university should publicly reject the IHRA definition of anti-semitism, and in particular its written examples. I think four out of seven examples are essentially conflation that anti-Jewish racism is the same as criticism of the state of Israel. And I think that’s really problematic and really shameful that any state can be exceptionalised in this way. That you know, essentially, trying to discredit the Free Palestine movement, which has legitimate criticism of the Israeli state, as if it is just some kind of fringe racist, movement, which is absolutely not true. So Lia and I expressed that opinion very strongly in that meeting, to which the university responded by not putting it in the anti-racism statement but putting the IHRA definition as a resource that people can look to about antisemitism. And I think that’s really problematic and shameful, and I think they should remove it from the resources list.
HS: How will you balance study with your tenure as president? Will you be reducing your study load or deferring?
RK: I will be reducing it as much as I can and probably deferring.
HS: Is there anything else you would like to add or say to students who will be reading this profile and who will be voting for you?
RK: Just that I think representation is really important. As a Palestinian, I rarely see myself represented in places of leadership. I think, please correct me if I’m wrong, but I think I would be the first Muslim president, if I do get elected. I think that’s also really important, showing Muslim students that there is a fighting student union that cares about them. and I also just think that it’s important that we have an independent and left-wing SRC. It’s important that that culture is led by the president and that’s exactly what I plan to do. The fact that my politics isn’t limited by any of the major parties, for most of students’ concerns, I think a lot of these things means that we need to have a president and a culture on campus that is oppositional to those major parties and oppositional also to management. And that’s exactly what I plan to do and to be.
