Jaden interviews a close friend, Claire*, who has a side job as an escort at a brothel. From undercover cops to NDAs, Claire’s experiences highlight how the clandestine nature of the industry — and the closetedness of her clientele — leads to sex workers being more likely to be fined than to find justice when harmed.
JO: Hi Claire, thank you for joining me tonight. How have you been?
Claire: Well, thanks. And thanks for having me.
JO: Let’s start with an introduction. How would you describe yourself, your role, and your line of work?
Claire: First, I’m a 23-year-old lesbian trans woman. I’d say I’m pretty bubbly and personality-oriented. I like to tease and joke around — it’s definitely my selling point with clients. That, and my exclusivity as one of the only trans escorts around in my city.
JO: You’ve referred to yourself as an ‘escort’. Can I clarify which terminology you like and dislike?
Claire: I’m an escort. More specifically, a full-service escort, which can include basically anything you could think of. Being full-service means what I offer ranges a fair bit but I try to set my boundaries where I feel the need to. Please don’t call us ‘hooker’, ‘prostitute’, or ‘prozzy’. I don’t mind ‘sex worker’ and many go by ‘working girl’.
JO: Could you share some examples of which services are included? I mean, what kind of range are we talking about here?
Claire: Full service includes mutual oral stimulation, sex in multiple positions, erotic massages, kissing. The brothel takes a cut, but for the extras I offer — for certain kinks and fetishes ranging from pegging, role playing (which can involve behaviours, costumes, identities), toys and objects, spanking, etc.) – I get to pocket the money.
JO: I see, quite the range, then. And what kinds of clients do you see?
Claire: I can’t lie, middle-aged white men are the most common demographic. In terms of jobs, I see several corporate guys (as you might expect), but also famous singers, athletes, tradies, and an ungodly number of truck drivers. Also, a lot of disabled men who have NDIS support which funds their visit to the brothel. A lot of the men we see are married — either keeping their ring on during the encounter or putting it on the lampstand until we’re done.
JO: Oh, married? Wow. Do they try to hide it, or are they more open about their infidelity?
Claire: Usually no, they don’t hide it. It’s not like I’d ever be bothered to search and find out; they’d always tell me. There’s an element of shame in a married client’s tone of voice — a hint of embarrassment or shakiness — but they’re always quite open about it. Some clients have asked me to roleplay as their wife (a nice break from being a daughter or student or niece), but usually the thrill of a mistress is what gets them off.
JO: Is the roleplay an added cost that a client would need to request separately, or is it expected with the service?
Claire: When a guy books a girl, he’ll know what kind of fantasies she’s good at performing. I mean, at the end of the day, we’re actresses before we’re sex workers. I’m a lesbian; every bit of interest I show in a man is a performance. Me specifically? I often give a bratty kind of vibe where I’m teasing the client by showing a bit of resistance to his requests, like pretending to not want to receive head. But, it’s like, at that point I’m not even acting, but I am?
JO: Because to him, you’re consciously pretending to not enjoy something that (he thinks) you enjoy, but from your perspective, this is actually a moment of honesty (where you’re acting as disinterested as you truly feel inside)?
Claire: Exactly.
JO: How does that all make you feel? The acting, the roleplay, the infidelity. Does their admission of marriage come across as salacious and fetishised, or is it more of a confession in a repressed, religious sense?
Claire: Exhausted. Married guys often have issues in their relationship that they want advice on. And look, I’m far from a certified marriage counselor by any means, but a great deal of my work is the conversation and verbal communication that occurs before, during, and after the sex. Some guys book me just to have someone to talk to.
JO: When hired at the brothel, were you warned that such a big part of your role would involve this emotional and consoling labour? I mean, if you’re paid to be a counsellor, I imagine you’d be at least trained as such, even informally.
Claire: Not so much by the management, but the other girls — the other escorts — warned me when I started that I would have a guy cry in my lap at least once or twice and told me to expect to take on a fair bit of a caretaker role in my bookings. In all honesty, I can’t say whether I prefer a booking where I’m mostly silent versus one where I’m rubbing a sweaty guy’s shoulder once the guilt kicks in.
JO: And, what about female or non-binary clients? Does your brothel only serve male clients?
Claire: No, we’re not gender-exclusive but some girls list a preference for a client’s gender. I can say that it’s a lot less common for women to book with us solo (heterosexual couple bookings are common). I sense a greater deal of shame in the women who come to us as clients.
JO: Like guilt, perhaps? Or do you read it more deeply as a discomfort with being confronted by some shared identity in a way that a straight man would never feel?
Claire: I think it depends. All I can say is that in my time at the brothel, I’ve never seen a woman come into the brothel; it’s always an outcall.
JO: An outcall?
Claire: Yeah, outcalls are when we visit clients at their home or at a mutual meeting spot like a hotel, rather than hosting them in one of the brothel’s private rooms.
JO: I see. Walk me through the process of booking. How does an interested client find an escort?
Claire: So, most brothels, including mine, have a website that has online profiles where each of the girls has photos, a stage name, a stage age, and a list of services that they offer with general pricing with a description of the things we like.
JO: Is that description honest? Do you get to make the profile, or, once hired, is that done for you by a manager?
Claire: When we apply to the brothel, we provide a short description of ourselves, including our preferences and limits, and this gets polished or edited by the managers before being posted online. We get to choose our photos, but they get edited by management in different ways (like face blurring, tattoo blurring) to de-identify us publicly whilst still showing, you know, the assets… but management takes control of our descriptions. They also set our stage ages which can vary up to five years in either direction from our real age. Many “20-year-olds” are actually 25, but some are 18.
JO: Right. So, can a potential client then contact a girl directly on the website?
Claire: No, they can’t. Instead, a unique number is listed for every girl so that when a client’s call goes to reception, the receptionist knows which girl is being called up about. This makes booking easier.
JO: Okay, that makes more sense now. I’ve seen escorts in movies flirting with a guy at a bar or something as some initial meet. Does that happen in real life?
Claire: Some brothels I know have a club or bar attached to them where clients can buy a drink, and mingle with the girls in-person. I’ve worked at a brothel like that.
JO: Do you approach them, do they approach you? Run me through that.
Claire: It depends. Most of the time, the girls approach the men first — ask them how their night’s going, share a bit about themselves (or at least, the “self” we play). Then, we’ll ask if the guy has been there before to help establish if the girl needs to give the usual run down of the brothel’s services and their prices, kind of like a waitress and the specials.
JO: Okay. Who initiates the move to the private room?
Claire: After that, if the vibe is right, we’ll stay and chat but we let the other girls get a chance to mingle so that the client can have the choice of their best pick. Sometimes, though, since we’re listed online, clients will ask for a specific girl and then, if she’s in, she’ll get called by reception to come down and the booking starts from there.
JO: Do you find it dangerous to meet guys like that?
Claire: Yes, but not how you might think. We have to be super careful about what we say to clients at the bar. Since the bar is a separate, licensed venue, it is illegal solicitation if we offer services to someone while they’re at the bar. Because of this, management and our bartenders will encourage clients to sit out at the lounge (which is considered part of the brothel, not the bar) which enables the girls to approach them and ‘sell’ themselves (because the lounge, as part of the brothel, is a space designated for sex work solicitation).
JO: Geez, that sounds quite murky legally in terms of a fuzzy spatial boundary determining which sex is legal and illegal to sell. How do you know the exact line which delineates bar from brothel, illegal from legal? Is the flooring different?
Claire: Honestly, it’s not always super clear. At my brothel, the flooring is the same and we never had someone walk around and, I don’t know, point out the boundary.
JO: Right, okay. So, you were told the rules about sharing/selling your services “here” and “not there,” even if done so vaguely, but was the specific legal framework overseeing this divide explained to you?
Claire: To an extent. We were told that if we messed up we’d be fined because soliciting in the wrong spot is illegal. But I never was told the exact law or rule that would trigger such a fine.
JO: Really? Was the law quoted or explained? Did management ever explain the important parts of the Sex Work Act or the Prostitution Act?**
Claire: No, not really. It was presented to us as a brothel rule as opposed to an actual law.
JO: Kind of like how in fast food, you’re told ‘you need a break on a five-hour shift’ but you’re never told why (legally speaking)?
Claire: Yeah, exactly.
JO: If I were to ask you to clearly differentiate soliciting and prostituting, could you explain which are/n’t illegal?
Claire: No, no, I honestly couldn’t.
JO: Okay, I understand you never had any legal training or education, but were you ever told who you could go to if something illegal happened to you, or if you had a question about what was/wasn’t legal?
Claire: No. We were recommended SWOP (Sex Workers Outreach Program) for counselling, but that’s not for legal help, is it?
[NOTE: SWOP does, in fact, offer or facilitate legal advice and support for sex workers, but this was never made known to Claire until this interview.]
JO: Do you know, now, where to go?
Claire: Not really, no.
JO: What else did your brothel tell you was illegal or you couldn’t do?
Claire: Having anyone underage in the brothel, of course; doing drugs out in the lounge/bar area; finding guys out in public; and a big rule is that all our sex has to be protected.
JO: Oh, is the protection rule a brothel policy or a law?
Claire: The law. As escorts, we could be fined up to $8,000 if we sell unprotected sex. We also get free condoms, which they said was a legal thing.
JO: Oh, wow — I didn’t know that. Are the clients aware?
Claire: Quite the opposite. I get asked by almost 90% of the clients I see to do things unprotected and when I refuse, they offer extra money on the side for it. Then, when I re-refuse, most leave. But again, if I ever accepted that money, I’d be facing that fine, or risk my brothel paying an even larger fine.
JO: Well, I’m glad to hear that you feel comfortable exercising your right, or, should I say obligation, to refuse, but if so many clients are pressuring escorts to go unprotected, do you know if any of the other girls accept?
Claire: Plenty do. Some even rely upon unprotected encounters for extra money. But it’s highly risky to do so because there are undercover cops who will try and trick girls by requesting an unprotected hookup and, once a girl agrees, arrest her instantly. But some girls are so desperate for the money that they’ll take that risk. Me personally? I would never.
JO: Oh my goodness. I had no idea. How would you know a client was an undercover cop besides that?
Claire: If they ask too many questions, specifically about things that I know aren’t okay or might be illegal. But if I feel uneasy, I always have my right to refuse a client, undercover cop or not.
JO: You told me before the interview that you were once the only trans girl in a brothel you worked at, right?
Claire: Yeah, I was.
JO: Did people — clients — call up for you specifically, then? At least, those with a specific fetish for trans women?
Claire: Oh, all the time. The trans community calls them chasers. If I could say, you would be surprised who specifically requests me. Religious guys, conservative guys, homophobes, athletes, diplomats who publicly denounce queerness and homosexuality.
JO: Can you tell me more about that? That sounds high stakes, both for you and the brothel.
Claire: I’m bound by quite a few NDAs, I must admit, so I can’t reveal too much. But I can say—
JO: Sorry, NDAs? I only knew of big-name sex workers like Stormi Daniels signing those.
Claire: Happens all the time.
JO: Do you sign them in front of the client?
Claire: Usually, yes. Once or twice, I have signed it in front of someone else that I assume is a security guard or an agent for the client, but usually, the client asks you to sign it in the room with them.
JO: NDAs are obviously legal documents and some of the most stressful contractual documents you could sign. How much did the brothel prepare you for the legal risks of servicing a client with an NDA?
Claire: Honestly, it wasn’t really something that we ever discussed or were made aware of. By the time I had started seeing clients that required me to sign NDAs, I was a bit scared to ask if it was something I should even be doing or if I should just turn those clients away. They are usually well-paying types of clients so I think I also just went with the flow because one booking with a client like that can make you as much as a whole night of working with regular clients.
JO: I should close off by asking about your future, the girls’ future? Do most of the girls see themselves doing this forever? Do you?
Claire: Most of the girls I work with are super uneducated and lack the opportunities to leave like other stable careers, tertiary qualifications, or a stable family support network. I haven’t been at the brothel for a while, but I don’t think all the girls have that ability.
JO: What’s one piece of advice that you’d give to anyone considering getting into sex work?
Claire: Make sure you’re doing it for the right reasons. A lot of girls come into the industry thinking they will be validated by men and make stacks of cash, but the reality is often very different. Don’t let anybody ever pressure you into doing something you aren’t comfortable with, and don’t ever get into a position where you can’t keep at least one hand free (safety first, girls!).
JO: One hand free?
Claire: An escort should always keep one hand free for two reasons. First, so you can always check if he’s still wearing the condom. And second, so that if anything goes wrong and you need to trigger a silent alarm, you’ve got a hand free to reach for it.
JO: Thanks so much for joining me, Claire.
Claire: Thanks for having me.
*An alias is used to protect the interviewee’s privacy, and Claire vetted all questions before submission.
**This interview was conducted in Canberra. The relevant Acts in NSW include various provisions of the Summary Offenses Act 1988 and the Crimes Act 1900.
