In the lead up to her panel at Sydney Writers’ Festival “Drag Storytime for grown-ups: Because reading is fundamental”, fabulous camp drag icon Art Simone joins Honi Soit to discuss her book Drag Queens Down Under, how she approaches the history of drag in Australia, and some wild tales from her storied drag career.
Will: Thank you so much for joining me today Art! Can you start us off with a little intro of yourself and your book Drag Queens Down Under?
Art: Yeah! I’m Art Simone, I’m a drag artist, I live down in Melbourne, and I’ve been doing drag professionally for almost fifteen years now. I’ve performed all across the world, I’m loud, technicolour, ocker, unashamedly bogan, I love everything about drag, and that’s what brought me to doing this book. I’ve been very fortunate and privileged to have a lot of opportunities come my way, but I’m only a product of my environment and all the drag queens before me who paved the way for me to reach the heights that I have.
I really started Drag Queens Down Under as a love letter to all those queens. Being on a show like RuPaul’s Drag Race Down Under is a vehicle for a minute amount of artists. Numerically, it’s only ten queens per season, and seven Australian queens, but also, with the styles of drag and the age bracket of drag, it really only fosters a certain type of drag artist. I wanted to harness this new interest in the Australian drag scene and turn the spotlight back on the people around me who aren’t able to be on a show like that, or get the attention I think they deserve.
W: Is the book more of a look at the current state of play of drag in Australia, or a sort of canon of Australian drag history?
A: It’s a celebration of the history of Australian drag. We start off in the Les Girls era, then right through into the Priscilla [Queen of the Desert] times, then the Drag Race times of today, into what I think the future of drag could look like, people on the scene who I think are pushing drag to new stages and phases and audiences. We go through the whole thing, and through that, I get to spotlight thirty different drag artists.
We’ve got Vonni in the Les Girls era, who was one of the original Les Girls housed in Kings Cross, and the first ever trans woman to play Bernadette in the Priscilla, Queen of the Desert musical in the Southern Hemisphere. Traditionally, that role is played by a cisgender male, and the story of Bernadette is about someone who used to be in Les Girls, so there was this amazing authenticity and full circle moment with that. Moving to the Priscilla era and you’ve got Cindy Pastel, who inspired the character of Priscilla. She tells us about the journey of the movie coming out and what happened to her life after that. While Priscilla saw all these big, spectacular things like the Oscars, that was all happening while [Pastel] was in the dole office watching the movie on TV.
Then we move on to some Drag Race favourites like Maxi Shield. She’ll be on the panel I’m doing, she has lots of fun stories. She was part of the closing ceremony for the Sydney Olympics, she was part of that big drag queen tribute that came out at the end. She explains that it was all hush-hush cause it was still taboo at the time. They were told they couldn’t say they were ‘drag queens’, they just had to say they were there ‘for Priscilla’. Then we move on to artists like Space Horse, who’ll be on the panel as well. Space Horse is pushing drag into new spaces, new stages, and new audiences. She’s an AFAB [assigned female at birth] drag queen, and one thing I love about Space Horse is that she celebrates and reinvents all the camp of Aussie drag before her.
We have the whole breadth of drag, and I can talk for hours about all thirty of them cause I love them all so dearly.
W: Something interesting with Australian drag history is that we have a lot of queer and trans performers, but also cishet performers like Dame Edna and the cast of Priscilla who take up a lot of that space. How do you approach platforming the queer and trans voices who’ve been around just as long when they’re not as storied?
A: That’s exactly what this kind of project is, and continues to be about, because our voices have been taken away from us, our stories have been told for us through other people who may not be able to do it as authentically. It’s really important to give these stories back to the people who originated them, and re-educate people who may not know these things. Priscilla is so widely known across the country, but half the people don’t know it’s based on a true story; it’s just a fantasy world to them. There’s real voices, there’s real stories, there’s real trauma, there’s real heart, and there’s real success. It’s really exciting that as we move into the future, we can give these stories back to their originators. I hope I’ve done that with this book.
W: How did you select the thirty queens you do feature? Did you know all of them already?
A: Australia’s really big, but the drag community is quite small. I had a good idea of who I wanted, but there were a few criteria. They had to be alive, because I had to interview them. They had to have pictures of themselves, since it’s a visual book as well, and drag is such a visual art form. I had some really cool drag artists who had no images of themselves. I really tried to pick people who told their stories, and whilst I may just have Vonni for the Les Girls era, she talks about everyone around her during that time.
I unfortunately only have one drag king, Sexy Galexy, but Galexy talks about all of the kings around them in their chapter. Whilst I could only pick thirty people, what I did do was make sure that those thirty were a vehicle for their sectors in the community. We have hundreds of drag artists celebrated and spoken about in the book through the people who love them.
W: I’m so shocked to hear that there are queens who don’t have hundreds of photos of themselves in drag.
A: Some of the older generation queens that I was desperate to have just didn’t have photos. I told Vonni, “I really need pictures of you”, and she showed up to her interview with a manila folder with physical photos for me. Some of them I had to go hunting for photos myself, and I was really lucky and fortunate that there’s a Sydney based photographer, Tom Luscombe, who has his own photography book about living in Sydney as a queer person in the 90s. He was so, so kind and gifted me a lot of photos used throughout the book to tell the story of the older years. It was difficult, but we got there.
W: Was there anything you felt really strongly about including or leaving out of this history of Australian drag that people might be surprised by?
A: I don’t really talk about someone like Dame Edna. She gets one line in the book, and I think people who would pick up the book might think, “Australian drag, oh Dame Edna”. There’s no denying that she was a really important part of the history of Aussie drag, but I didn’t want to tell their story. I didn’t feel comfortable, especially with the people I did include in the book. That’s probably the biggest omission. Poor doll. Kind of ruined that for herself, didn’t she? Ah well. Rest in peace, don’t speak ill of the dead. That’s why I didn’t speak about her, she can’t defend herself.
W: That’s definitely it, that’s the reason you didn’t include her.
A: Exactly, cause she’s not alive.
W: Your event for the Sydney Writers’ Fest is called Drag Storytime for Grown-Ups. Is this because you’re anticipating there’ll be some people in the audience who can’t read?
Art Simone laughs a lot. This isn’t editorialising, she laughs for like thirty seconds.
A: Stop it, I’m stealing that, that’s heaven. Yes, I think that is correct.
I’m excited, it’s a play on the issues in the drag community of recent with drag storytime, and the uproar against it despite it being not anything bad whatsoever. I’m excited to bring four of the icons of the book onto stage for everyone to hear their stories personally. There’ll also be a couple of performances, and you can just enjoy watching five drag queens talk shit together.
When you get us together and put a mic in front of us, it’s the closest glimpse you can have into a drag queen dressing room, and I think it’s gonna be really fun. We’ll also be opening up for questions, so if you’ve read the book or not, if you have any questions you’ve ever wanted to ask a drag artist, we have a whole team of people ready to spitfire answers at you.
W: Are you expecting this to be people who are more interested in drag, or a typical Writers’ Fest audience who might be surprised what this panel is actually about?
A: I’m hoping it’s a mix, I’m hoping by us being there it encourages some drag lovers to come out and check out the rest of the Sydney Writers’ Fest, but I’m also hoping we have some very straight-edge writer-people who’ve never seen a drag queen before in their life. That’s what it’s about.
My favourite thing with my drag career is I like putting drag queens where they don’t traditionally belong. I think it’s hilarious, the whole fish out of water scenario. A panel of five drag queens at Sydney Writers’ Festival is so funny to me, and so silly. What are we doing there? Why do I have a book? It’s so random, how did that happen?
I’m so excited, I hope we get people who are very quizzical and may want to know the ins and outs of drag, which means we get asked questions we’ve never been asked before. I like to be kept on my toes, cause sometimes when you’re only talking to one audience it can get repetitive and predictable. When you’re in front of a new set of eyes you can get some curveballs that make you think differently about everything.
Drag queens also just love to talk. They’re gonna need a big hook to pull us all offstage. I don’t know how we’re gonna run to time whatsoever. I think I’ve written 3 dot points, and I think those will last us 3 hours, we’ll need the Oscars music to play us off. We’ll start playing Absolutely Everybody and we’ll know to just scoot away.
W: And you’ll have Maxi Shield and Etcetera Etcetera there, so that’ll probably be really triggering for them, that’ll be fun.
A: No it’s good, it’s good for them, as long as there’s no microphones pulled out of strange places we’ll be okay.
W: You’ve been a very successful working drag queen since before and after the arrival of Drag Race Down Under on our shores. How do you think the audience for drag has changed since it first premiered?
A: The audience for drag has really expanded, there’s a lot more knowledge about what drag is, what it can be, and how interesting and fun it is. It’s been really beneficial. Prior to Drag Race it was more of a niche thing, people didn’t understand what it was, and it was a little more taboo. It was more exciting, with people going “what are you and what is this”, and now people are just like “oh, you’re one of them drag queens”.
It’s created a lot of opportunities, it’s expanded our audience base, and it’s expanded the type of people who want to do drag. Drag is an art form anyone can do, and that anyone can apply to their performance style and self expression. Y’know, I wouldn’t have a book like this without Drag Race, and I’m so grateful for what that show has done for the drag community. There’s so many artists I started doing drag alongside who now have really exciting careers and opportunities, and I love that for them.
W: My first interview for Honi Soit was with your season 1 castmate Etcetera Etcetera, and we spoke about your read of her from the show which became massively viral. I’d love to know what your perspective is on the life this clip has taken on since the show.
A: It’s not often that something from Drag Race Down Under leaches into the mainstream knowledge of Drag Race across the world. There’s so many franchises, and I’m so excited and happy that the read has moved beyond the shores of down under and is now part of the collective aether of Drag Race-isms. I still see it pop up, and I think at least tag me, please, tag me!
Who would’ve thought, being in that silly little shed in Auckland, that me saying a silly little joke to one of my best friends would end up being so funny and have such a life and still pop up to this day. I’m very fortunate.
W: It’s a great moment. I must say, Kick-Ons [Art’s Drag Race Down Under recap show] is one of my favourite things in the Drag Race Cinematic Universe. What’s your favourite part of making that show?
A: My favourite part is giving context to everything. I think for Drag Race Down Under, we’re a misunderstood franchise globally, so I love explaining references and pop culture and what things mean, cause we’re so constantly misunderstood and I felt that way on my season. I love giving those explanations to the wider audience so they can appreciate the references which aren’t highlighted or celebrated by the production team.
It’s also so fun to sit down with other drag artists and talk shit. I love it so much, and it’s been another opportunity like the book where I’m able to platform and give opportunities to other drag artists around the country who may not be on Drag Race. That’s where people got to see Space Horse and how unhinged she is, and that’s where some of my best drag sisters get to come and share the spotlight for a bit.
I just like sitting in a pink shed which is on top of Lazy Susan’s garage. It’s so janky, everyone says “it’s more professional than Drag Race Down Under”, but if only they knew. We literally have to climb up this rickety ladder to this shed that’s above Lazy Susan’s garage, it’s so unsafe. Whenever it rains water comes through, but hey, it shows you what a little bit of drag magic can do to a space, cause we’re really proud of it. That’s our baby.
W: It looks beautiful, and you can see the love that goes into it. There’s a lot of voices who think Drag is meant to be seen in dark bars and keep that low-lit mystery, so how do you approach giving context without ruining the magic of drag?
A: I think it’s all a bit of a farce. Drag can be seen anywhere and everywhere. It traditionally used to be seen there, but I think drag is for everyone in every scenario, and it should be seen in every light. Not every drag is the same. Sure, some of it may belong in a club, but a lot of it doesn’t. Clubs also aren’t very accessible, my favourite thing is taking drag to places where people don’t traditionally get to see it.
A lot of my career has been travelling to regional parts of the country and performing in town halls or backyards, to give people access to a little glitz and glam. Clubs are very late, and I’m an old lady now. It’s too late. My last year has been touring with Fountain Lakes in Lockdown, and our show time is anywhere between 6-7pm, and that’s beautiful. That’s where drag should be. Get out of the clubs, we’re gonna do 6pm shows everyone!
W: I love that it still has an hour of give as well. When people go to a drag show and expect it to start on time, it’s just so obvious they’ve never been to one before.
A: Drag time is its own special thing, and 9 times out of 10 it’ll never start on time. Ever.
W: Do you have a favourite unconventional location you’ve performed at?
A: I once performed on a pontoon in the middle of Sydney Harbour while Neil Young sang ‘Love is in the Air’ for a live telecast. It was the most random thing of my life, there’s fireworks going off, I’m in the middle of Sydney Harbour doing this *she waves her arms* while holding a flag, and Neil Young is singing. That one will stick to me as one of the strangest things I’ve ever had to do, but it was also heaven.
W: It’s at least a story. Now, I’m coming to you from a university newspaper, what’s your relationship like to tertiary education?
A: I mean, it’s for some people but not for everyone. I went to uni for a year, found out it wasn’t for me, or at least the environment wasn’t for me. That’s not on tertiary education but rather the lecturers around me. That’s why I’m called Art Simone, one of my lecturers told me I’d never be an artist, so I called myself Art instead, cause I was a snotty teenager. I was like “how dare you, that’s not fair! I’ll show you, I am Art.” I guess I’m a little scorned, but hey, my experience in tertiary education is what brought me to where I am now, so y’know, love it.
W: That is amazing. This last question is a bit of a hypothetical. How do you think Art Simone would be different if she was born and raised in Sydney instead of Melbourne?
Reader, I asked this question as a way to prod Art to talk about the differences between Sydney and Melbourne. Alas, she saw right through me, burst out laughing, and instead answered with this, between fits of giggles.
A: Well how would I be different? I’d have a tan, I’d be really into the beach, I’d love bridges, I’d be really into the opera, I’d maybe have a dog instead of a cat. I would… y’know I think that’s about it. I’d definitely have a tan.
W: Everything else is the same, you’re just tanned.
A: I think I’d live in the Inner West, that’s my favourite part of Sydney when I work and perform and visit. I don’t know, that’s a very strange question.
W: I was trying to find a way to ask how you think Sydney and Melbourne are different without just saying it.
A: Oh I know, I’m just trying to be nice because this is being published in Sydney. I know what you’re trying to bait me to do, and I’m not doing it, I have to do this event in Sydney! I’m not gonna offend any of the Sydney people, or the Sydney Writers’ Festival, I would never.
W: Do you have any last things to share or promote while we’re here?
A: I’m gonna be back in Sydney at the beginning of May for the Sydney Comedy Festival with Fountain Lakes in Lockdown, our return season. We’ll be at the Darling Quarter theatre, running from May 7th to the 18th. Please come along and check that out if you love Kath and Kim, you love drag, and you love anything camp and kooky.
Thank you so much for having me, now I’m off to go and try and buy Lady Gaga tickets!
You can catch Art Simone at her Sydney Writers’ Festival panel on the 23rd of May.
